Pointslessness: Some Meta Feedback
In response to the first Pointslessness I received one of the best comments ever: here he is, AP Stats Mike, in all his glory:
I am a student in an AP Statistics class like this [hippy grading] where at the end of every marking period we do a project on “skills” that my teacher gives us. We are graded on every skill, but we can always re-do them to get a new grade.
Pros:
-Less stress
-We actually do have great classrooom discussions
-No time spent on tests
-No faking homework
-It’s pretty much impossible to cheat
-We don’t try to please the teacher to get points
-Great feedback on what we did wrongCons:
-We don’t feel the urgency to know the material until we have to do the project
-By not having tests we don’t study the material because we can use our books for the projects
-Class in considered low-priority because if we don’t like our grade we can always change it
-If we aren’t ‘feeling it’ we can just completely not pay attention
I’m pretty OK with his cons list. It feels like how I learn stuff in my real life.
However, the word “learning” and “understanding” don’t crop up either. Also, it seems that the grade is still the ultimate concern.
Perhaps, in this PBL system, cramming is possible because of the concentration of assessment that the project creates. Maybe a rigorous, teacher-initiated reassessment system is in order.
Pointslessness: An Experiment in Teenage Psychology My TEDx Experience
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Hello.This post was extremely interesting, especially because I was searching for thoughts on this topic last week.
Shawn, how do we address the issue of the ungraded class becoming the lowest priority when things get crazy for students? I teach AP Physics and I don’t grade homework. Most of my students take AP Calculus and that teacher makes homework worth more than 50% of their grade and assigns 2-3 hours of it per night. Only my most dedicated students even pretend to do their AP Physics HW. Logic would tell me to make my HW count more if I want these kids to do it. But I’m trying to make a point, so I don’t cave in.
We work in a system where everyone tells students that grades are what matters, not learning. Colleges are looking at your grades and the only point of high school is getting into a good college. Guidance counselors, parents, administrators, peers, and teachers are all delivering this message. If there’s one thing about education that infuriates me more than anything it’s this. Any ideas?
@Jake: You’ve hit on something crucial here. While we know that the motivation behind SBG and not grading homework is correct, does it make sense within the context of a system that doesn’t share our values? Grading is ok, as long as it’s a sparse byproduct of learning; the problem is that we’ve inflated the meaning of grades, and now we’re expected to give A’s for even the smallest effort which may or may not even sniff understanding.
So, what do we do? I love it that you refuse to give in and go back, that’s a hard thing to do. I’ve experience a bit of kick back from this, especially in the form of teachers questioning whether I’m actually providing an education or not, which is hard to deal with emotionally.
I would make sure that you’re having the learning conversation with your kids as often as they will tolerate. Be the voice of reason. Also, make sure your assessments are accurate and challenging enough. Those that don’t need to study, shouldn’t. But if it’s possible to assess proficient without doing anything, then either your class isn’t hard enough or your kids are really smart. Do they need to do your homework to get it? The only thing to worry about is if they are choosing to do it when they are confused. You may want to institute a rule that a student who has assessed below proficient needs to show some evidence of self-remediation before reassessing again.
Good luck!
I think this reinforces the importance of pr. It’s important for students to see (and believe) SBG/PBL as something other than just a different game with different rules. I feel like I’ve talked to death the idea of doing these things to promote better/deeper understanding, but the Sirens are powerful (especially when report cards fast approach). I wonder if this commenter were first asked to reflect on the point of school if his/her pros/cons list would look different.
@Avery: Bingo! Gaming is gaming. Learning is learning. [Enter Chad Sansing with a baseball bat]